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Clinch Knots (Read 1194 times)
dryflyin
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Clinch Knots
Mar 26th, 2013, 4:21pm
 
The standard knot for tying a fly is the improved clinch knot.  I learned this knot as a kid from the box of Stren monofilament.  The blood knot for joining two pieces of leader is essentially two clinch knots tied head to head.
 
When a clinch knot breaks, every once in a while, it leaves enough at the end that it seems the loop through the hook eye is what broke.  That got me thinking - has anyone tried looping through the hook eye twice, and then doing the 5+ wraps?  Just thinking of how I could strengthen that part that is failing.
 
Maybe I'll tie that up and an improved clinch, and rig something up to test which is stronger...
 
 
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haramic
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #1 - Mar 26th, 2013, 6:15pm
 
Hi dryflying,
 
A Trilene knot is kind of close to what you're describing without the improved part.   Smiley  
 
http://www.animatedknots.com/trilene/index.php?Categ=fishing&LogoImage=LogoG rog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
 
It's the last knot on the list on the left side of the website.  
 
In the past, the San Diego Jam Knot was the winner for strongest knot.
 
Thanks,
Chiaki
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Sasquatch
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #2 - Mar 26th, 2013, 8:14pm
 
I think I either read, or had somebody show me that trick years ago, when I was repeatedly breaking off fish on 7 and 8X tippets. It works!!
 
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BrownBear
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #3 - Mar 26th, 2013, 9:20pm
 
Yup, sounds like the Trilene knot to me.  I don't have my knot book at hand, but the Improved Clinch is only something like a 60% knot (i.e., you lose 40% of the line strength), while the Triline is around 80%.  Memory may be faulty on the later.  
 
If the eye is not too small relative to the diameter of the leader I actually prefer a Palomar knot for skinny leaders.  It's a 100% knot.  If I can't get the doubled leader through the hook eye, I use a Uni knot.  It's another 100% knot with the advantage that you can leave the "loop" open a bit for a jigging action in streamers and other wet flies, but it closes up at the hit.  I like the Uni for small dries because you actually construct and tighten the knot up on the leader away from the fly, then slide it down toward the fly.  Easiest way I know to keep the knot away from dry hackles.
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Shimloom
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #4 - Mar 28th, 2013, 11:42am
 
I have used lots of knots over the years, but now for the past 6 years I'd guess I use the San Diego Jam Knot.  By far the best not I ever used.  Taught a lot of people that knot over the years I was in the tackle buisness.
 
Craig
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jdmanville
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #5 - Mar 28th, 2013, 1:32pm
 
When fishing the lower Sac I was introduced to the Eugene Bend. Great 100% Knot. Easy to tie. Works with both flouro and mono and all tippet sizes.
http://www.fishcreeksalmon.org/Eugene_Bend.htm
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Jason
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dryflyin
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #6 - Mar 28th, 2013, 2:21pm
 
Quote from haramic on Mar 26th, 2013, 6:15pm:

A Trilene knot is kind of close to what you're describing without the improved part.   Smiley  

http://www.animatedknots.com/trilene/index.php?Categ=fishing&LogoImage=LogoG rog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

It's the last knot on the list on the left side of the website.  

In the past, the San Diego Jam Knot was the winner for strongest knot.

 
Thanks Chiaki et al.  What a great knot site!!  Yes, the Trilene knot is exactly what I was thinking - I just didn't know it until now.  But now I'm going to go with the San Diego Jam.  I kind of dread knots, but animatedknots.com sure does make it easy!!
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #7 - Mar 29th, 2013, 5:58pm
 
Quote from Sasquatch on Mar 26th, 2013, 8:14pm:
I think I either read, or had somebody show me that trick years ago, when I was repeatedly breaking off fish on 7 and 8X tippets. It works!!

B

 
 
I have been having trouble tying knots due to 65 year old eyes and lack of finger coordination,  so I went larger tippets,  but still having trouble tying size 22 flies on 0X tippets.
 
Chiaki,    thanks for the San Diego Jam Knot-  seems perfect for smaller flies.  Being right handed, I had to view the animated knots version in "mirror" to make it comfortable for me.- so I could hold the leader in left hand and wrap with right.  
 
Jason,   the Eugene Knot is so easy and fast, but seems bulky. That would not be a visible detraction on large flies,  but have you ever used it on size 18- 24?  
 
 
TO HIJACK THE THREAD:  I have been a blood knot guy all my life, but what is your experience with a Double Sugeons Knot for tippets/leader on 5- 8X, especailly in the wind  & on the Kern where changing flies is mandatory.    
 
Jim
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JDubP
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #8 - Mar 29th, 2013, 6:19pm
 
BROWN BEAR:  A WINNER?    just practiced the "uni" knot  (called Duncan Knot on animated knots) and it is simple and quick-- especially  for an old right handed guy with aging eyes and smaller flies.
 
The other knot on your post the "Palamor knot"  is very quick but seems a bit bulky--- at what size fly do you change to the Uni Knot?
 
Thanks,  
 
Jim
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BrownBear
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #9 - Mar 29th, 2013, 6:48pm
 
Glad you like the Uni.  It's a dandy, fer sure.
 
As for the Palomar and size, I generally start using it on around #8, then up through #4 or #2.  Larger than that means I'm after bigger fish, and especially with streamers I go back to the Uni.
 
As for bloods, I use them on mono, but prefer the double surgeon on floro.  
 
Hot tip- I like stiff butts on my leaders, so always tie them from stiff mono, then switch to floro at about the 2x point in the leader.  But lots of folks have trouble joining mono and floro.  Here's the tip for going from mono to floro.  I.e., When I've tapered down to 2x mono, I next tie in 2x floro.  Doesn't seem to matter whether I use blood or DS, so long as I match the diameters between the two materials before tapering on down through smaller sizes of floro with the DS.
 
Heck, long as we're playing follow the leader  Grin here's one more tip:  When adding a heavy shock tippet for toothy fish, use back to back uni's for the joint.  Strong and no tendency for the leaders to cut each other.  Best of all, the knot lays perfectly straight, rather than hinging like the traditional Albright.
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #10 - Mar 30th, 2013, 12:11pm
 
Hey guys.  I too use the Back-to-back Uni for connecting two lines together.  If you use Nylon to floro do an extra turn on the floro side it helps.  If you tie a leader to a braided line, I do a 6-9 turn knot. 6 turns on the braid and 9 on the leader, hard to beat.
 
Craig
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JDubP
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #11 - Mar 30th, 2013, 12:39pm
 

BrownBear and Shimloom-  on double-unis:  do you ever use a long tag end for the top fly ?
 
Also, on the Shasta fly blog, a guide recommended tying the Uni around your ring finger and then slip the noose onto the hook bend of the top fly and tighten it.  
 
Does this sound practical:
To change the top fly,  he just slips the noose loose,  ties on a new top fly and then puts the noose on the hook bend of the new top fly and tighens.
 
Could that work for the bottom fly also:
If I tied several different bottom flies onto leader with a loose Uni knot on the other end, store them coiled in a leader holder.  Then on the water I could change a bottom fly in seconds by loosing the Uni Knot, removing the bottom fly/leader and attaching the new leader with fly.
 
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Shimloom
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #12 - Mar 30th, 2013, 5:50pm
 
jdubp, I only use the back-to-back uni on line to line connections.  I use the San Diego Jam Knot for most all other connections. using a uni as a slip knot, if I understand your question, might work, but I have never tried it.  The SDJK is a slip knot of sorts and could be used for looping over other knots, like a stop knot or a hook bend.  I will have to get to the desk and try this out.
 
Craig
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John Harper
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #13 - Mar 31st, 2013, 7:58am
 
I've used the improved clinch since I can't even remember, it's like genetically ingrained.  I have been trying to transition over to the "uni" knot as well, but I just seem to forget it too easily and fall back to the clinch.  I know the uni is supposed to be easier to tie and is highly regarded in saltwater circles, but my brain has not committed it to memory as yet.
 
John
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BrownBear
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Re: Clinch Knots
Reply #14 - Mar 31st, 2013, 9:36am
 
Quote from John Harper on Mar 31st, 2013, 7:58am:
I've used the improved clinch since I can't even remember, it's like genetically ingrained.  I have been trying to transition over to the "uni" knot as well, but I just seem to forget it too easily and fall back to the clinch.  I know the uni is supposed to be easier to tie and is highly regarded in saltwater circles, but my brain has not committed it to memory as yet.

John

 
 
Funny John, but I can completely relate.  I had trouble transitioning for fly fishing, and it wasn't until I used it a lot in saltwater that I finally fell into the habit in fresh. Something about the bigger lines made it easier to start in salt, while the smaller lines in fresh were a hindrance to the habit.
 
And JDubP- Never thought of using uni's as you suggest, but it sounds like seeds of some very good ideas.  I'm heading north right now and away from the opportunities to try them until next fall, so if you come up with something sooner, be sure to report back!
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